The Sales Playbook Behind 100x Growth in the Automotive Industry

Transcript

Welcome to the automotive advantage. Grow your business and get smarter in just one hour. All right, welcome back. Automotive advantage and away we go. Justin, this is a good one. We’re in between Christmas and New Year’s and this is where people really put in the time to get ahead for the following year, right? Something like that? For 2026, everybody’s asking for how do we do better? How do we increase sales? I’m not sure. I’m not sure. I’m not sure. I’m not sure. I’m not sure. I’m not sure. I’m not sure. I’m not sure. I’m not sure. I’m not sure. I’m not sure. I’m not sure. How do we go to market better? How do we close the deals in 26? So we brought in an expert to answer those tough questions today. It’s Uncle Robin Lawrence. Robin, thanks for coming in. Thanks for coming to Pontiac, Michigan.

Glad to be here. Thank you for having me. So good to see you. This is going to be good. You ready? Yeah. Evidently, time flies, man. We were just off camera talking about a time I saw Uncle Robin at Beach Bend Dragway and Evan only those 15 years ago, which is absolutely insane. But I do want to get into kind of early LS stuff with you guys, sales stuff. So I don’t know where we want to start. Maybe Robin, for the people who don’t know you, if you want to give us a quick kind of bio where you came from, what you did, what you were known for, maybe where the nickname came from, and then what we’re doing today.

I guess my real personal racing started with NMRA. I attended one race at Bowling Green in 1999, and Dr. Jamie Meyer and several of his cohorts. I don’t know if I’m familiar with Jamie because he was writing, doing some editorial stuff, freelance for some of the magazines. And he was announcing other events also. So I went down to Bowling Green. We watched and then I built a car for the next year, 2000, which was the official launch of NMRA. And so got to know the group better and raced NMRA for several years. And the nickname comes from Dr. Meyer always enjoyed having fun with making it very entertaining announcing.

Very elaborate, very exaggerated names and comments and features about different racers. And the big problem is, is typically the crowd believed him. He firmly believed that if he said it over a microphone, kind of like our current liberal media, they think if they say something, it makes it true. And so he, James Lawrence and Steve Walcott were the two primary owners of NMRA and put that together. And so James, so Dr. Meyer said, this is Robin Lawrence, James Lawrence’s dad.

And so at that point in time, James was not real, real popular among a lot of people. And he was very heavy handed with the rules and talking to racers about the rules and their combinations. Of course, racers were not as easy to get along with either because they were pushing for their opinion. And so James, some guys like, walking to the restroom at the track and the guy goes, James Lawrence’s dad. And so I went to the tower and I asked Jamie very politely, please don’t tell people I’m James Lawrence’s dad. And so he was quiet for a little while. I mean, I made a couple rounds and then later on he said, the next day he’s like, this is Robin, James Lawrence’s uncle.

And so he called me Uncle Robin. So never to be outdone, you know, I asked a very good friend of mine. I said, you know, this guy, this announcer is giving me a nickname at the event. He says, is it derogatory? I said, no. He goes, run with it. I said, really? He goes, nobody remembers Mike or, you know, he said that they remember animal Mike. If somebody has a name, he’s they remember that. He said, so it is not derogatory. Run with it. So I went to the graphic guy and I had a sticker made for the windows said Uncle Robin. And so not to be outdone by Dr. Meyer. And it kind of stuck. You know, there’s been a lot of variations of that. I think Steve Turner’s called me Uncle, Uncle Tester a couple of times, you know, because they test a lot. And he’s also called me Uncle Red Light once or twice. So but anyway, that’s that’s kind of how the origin of that is. Raised an MRA, a little bit of NMCA, worked with Dr. Meyer on the LSS program.

And then later on went to work for Holly in late 2010 and was there in many different capacities, mainly in sales and primarily EFI, getting the EFI program off the ground and out and building the EFI program for Holly EFI. So I think I retired in February of 23. And a lot of changes going on. And then at that point in time, I decided to go do my own thing. I might dino tuning and consulting and things like that. So that’s kind of just if you want to fill in any blank spots.

is an expert knowing the industry because he lived with me, lived his whole life and came from outside the industry. Right here in concrete sales. I was in the construction industry and it was a materialist used in parking garages and bridge decks. And so I grew up in a construction company. And then later on went to work selling construction products. And then later as a regional sales guy. And then later on I became a regional sales manager for the company that made the product I used to sell. And I did that as a regional sales manager. Had eight reps in 13 states. I did that for 19 years. And from there I went to Holly.

So I raced during that time that I worked for that company. So it was like you said outside the industry but somewhat I was very blessed to be supported by a lot of different companies. Did a lot of different testing and feedback for companies. So it was very well sponsored so to speak. And so did technical stories for Steve at Five-O Mustang magazine. So you know had a very good relationships and ties to the industry but it wasn’t employed in the industry.

And one of the craziest parts about racing in general to me is the fact that you meet Uncle Robin at what’s basically an amusement park in a beach pen. And then 15 years later I’m at Beach Ben Raceway and I see Uncle Robin interviewing for the Holly job. So coming out of the concrete world into the car world. So where else in the world can you find a doctor, an uncle and a college dropout who all make careers out of this space. From one little place in Beach Ben it’s crazy.

It is. Yeah no it was still a cool place and a lot of good memories there with NMR and NMCA and all of that. So it was a day interview when we bumped into each other on that day but it was very cool. So I want to go to probably that time period then 2000, 2001, 2002 somewhere in there. And for people that don’t know I think a lot of people may know that both of you were very early on in the LS game.

And I think today we see a lot of people who are like how do I build a market, how do I create something. I have a product and I want it to be the next LS or I want it to be the next hot thing. When the LS came out for people that don’t remember or weren’t even born yet it was not the second coming of engines. I mean it was not a popular engine right out the gate. Now today LS the world right it’s the biggest best engine platform that’s probably ever existed but if we can rewind the tape for people at home Jamie maybe you go first you’re at Chevy Performance GM Performance Parts probably at the time. They come to you with hey we’ve got this new thing we need to make it a big deal we’ll weave Robin in here eventually but give me kind of how you approach that because I don’t think that doesn’t happen often in this industry and it’s a big turning point in the industry.

And Robin plays a role in this both ways because he was asked to help put together some marketing material he didn’t have the time so he asked if I could go write the catalog for GM Performance Parts this is 2005 and you’re right LS stuff is starting to become real in the aftermarket so I end up leaving science right I’m a PhD postdoctoral fellow in Cincinnati at the time and I’m chasing the NMRA series just like Robin is as a racer putting on these events you know these crazy race cars and just ramp it aftermarket build up here comes LS GM Performance Parts does the LSX block so really first aftermarket block I think it’s probably still the most capable engine component component they’ve ever done and there were a lot of ways to go to market you helped Justin with LSX shootouts and the early ones there you know GM high tech was where we spent a lot of time and leaned on that community a lot LS1 tech we were there but one of the difficulties we had is how to connect with people on these forums it was prior to social media and you know we’ve joked through the years but really to return the favor to make Robin work even more crazy into this industry we signed him up for got him a contract for what would become an influencer it wasn’t known that way but he was a technical advisor he was to be out at the racetracks we got him the Nova project car from horsepower TV he did an amazing series of engine builds with LSX components all of that went back in the catalog all of it went back into the dealer shelves all of it went into feedback to the engineers most importantly people around the fence about LS could see someone they trusted uncle Robin do this crazy stuff and go racing and then he was on the forums and this is everything he’s filling everything on how you go fast for these cars so you know Robin that was daring for you at the time I mean you you had you knew the Mustang world real well but here comes the LS stuff we haven’t talked about that in years but that was fun right

it was it was I remember the phone call and it was it was as you said and I don’t know about influencer but it was definitely the forums were big and you’ve talked about Tony Watley many times and John Ryan was also partners with Tony and LS one tech was kind of the place to go for LS information there was a couple other stragglers but they were just nothing compared to LS one tech very very and and I think that the message that was out there that was getting out there was not GM’s message and so a lot of the information that was on there was an attempt to attack or to to reduce GM or GM performance parts because that’s how people try to elevate themselves in the industry and so there was a lot of bad information and there was a lot of unanswered comments or posts that were developed so and in my PSA personal services agreement that I ended up getting with GM performance parts it was it was the car was part of it but the car was the smallest part of it and people think it was like a big racing program and that was not the social media and that and we had a list of I think about 20 different message boards at the time and so you know I spent a fair amount of time of course LS one tech probably took 60% of the time that I devoted to following that and you know my job allowed me to do that I mean I had you know the time that I could you know in some days I’m I would get on that look at the post see what’s going on see if anybody had said something that we needed to clarify or give a background or there were guys on there that hey let’s you know I can put you in contact with the right people to solve your problem you know I’d necessarily have all the answers but I definitely had a through you and other people at Jim performance parts had a path to help these people or get them answers with their their problems or their questions so that was you know again probably early influencer type thing but spent a lot of time on social media and again you know I think the thing is I had some credibility because I’d been out racing I had plenty of been out and technical stories different things so it was that credibility and that you know you know being able to nicely answer questions or respond or or hopefully direct a post in a different direction because there was a few of those and so that’s kind of what we did and while trying to promote the LSX block at the same time and yeah

was on LS1 tech reading all this stuff and engaging with it there so but it is funny to just watch even today people still don’t really know how to interact with influencers so maybe we can stay on this topic for a little bit so GM performance parts has a block they know what it’s capable of but a lot of that sounds like marketing speak or OEM bullshit or whatever people don’t want to really engage with the OE directly maybe early on because they don’t trust it so you think okay I’m gonna bring in some racers that are well known maybe a Mustang guy you know or maybe a Buick guy or whatever get him in here and let him start to tell the story but still stay really close like I’m sure there’s hey Robin what’s what are you hearing hey I saw this post can you respond to that right so maybe Jamie talked to me about like the because that was the best relationship of an influencer to a manufacturer it still is but a lot of people are maybe even further away from that now than they were then so give me like the lay of the land how you set that up then and maybe is that still the same now or do you would you modify that in any way today and then Robin I want your take there too

I think you I mean you nailed it right like the key was you had to have somebody that was had been there and done that the Mustang guys were a generation ahead of the LS racers regardless of how they feel about it and you had so many hardcore heads up Mustang drag racers if this wasn’t like bring a Mustang guy isn’t it was like bringing someone that has this great technical knowledge and is really patient and can really explain things you know there there are Mustang racers are just heads up racers you wouldn’t put in front of a group of people because they just can’t explain the part or the story or tell everything so well Robin did a wonderful job and it’s funny because I was thinking about this podcast in the last couple days and you’re right I don’t see this type of relationship with a manufacturer and an influencer today I’m sure they exist but I think some of it gets glossed over we were in the weeds with Robin he had access to every engineer and it’s very silent at the time there were GM performance parts engineers that were engines and components there were GM performance division folks that were putting together special editions and Cadillac V’s and things like that there was GM racing that was manufacturing a lot of the parts and then there’s corporate Chevy that someone might ask him about a tow vehicle or something like that so none of these groups ever talked together and we would just find the right person for Robin to get information from and that went on for I don’t know how long the contract last two or three years three and a half years three and a half yeah and he he was at all the races he’s on all the four you know he’s getting interviewed you were on horsepower TV several times yes

I was well as I’m power block with Courtney that was you know the highlight of course no extra power block twice when we received the car in this raw form that you know they pulled the engine trans out and here you go and raw form after they got done with it and then once we got the car functionally altogether running the whole bit then we brought it back down and showed in the car and then some horsepower TV also as you said for other types of those segments and different things like that but yeah

talked to me about keeping your integrity with racers and with people you know and also working with an OE we hear from a lot of influencers or shops that are like oh I don’t know if I can work with that person or it’s gonna seem like I’m buying their goodwill or whatever but you were pretty honest on the forums about what the block could do and what it couldn’t do and what people were doing wrong so give me kind of your take on how you best work with an OE or someone like that

well honesty as you said honesty and there was some stuff that we didn’t know and there was some stuff about the block that we didn’t know and there were revisions that were made based on what we learned and so that was again they they we did the program with the car which was to build a nitrous assisted car that would run in nostalgia pro-street which is in the in the mid sevens and so that would validate that integrity of that block and that product line so we again we were honest and so if we knew something you know because you’re gonna get found out at some point in time anyway and then your credibility goes to hell so you’re just better off to be humble and say you know we’re working on it you know let’s get it here’s what’s going on but the honesty and again trying to help individuals you know on the forums and and give them a direction that was that they couldn’t they didn’t have any other way you talk about the the I had a great relationship with the GM performance parts team and the and the engineers and things like that so you know literally had people like oh this I’m gonna this email this post needs to be copied and go to this guy and then I get a response I’d be able to say something but a lot of my knowledge or you know it came about from the relationship with them and then giving me that information and and not trying to give an answer just off the top you know just like prove I know something because they’re gonna find out I mean they’re gonna figure out you know who and what at some point in time so it was it was I was blessed to have that connection and so it’s the same thing at Holly you know later on at Holly you know having access to the right people so but I think you when you’ve mentioned current influencers that kind of is interesting because I think a lot of the marketing you know here you go you know go out there and tell them how great this is and hope you know here’s about your car and and they think that’s influencing and some of these people they don’t have the level of credibility that I would hope these marketing people would go after there’s there’s a tremendous amount of people out there that have been there done that have the credibility and have have done and they’re they’re not you know they may not speak well I mean they may not present well but there’s other people that do so

and I think the other lesson for companies maybe on that same vein is don’t just let your marketing team meet with the influencers like bring the engineers or have a bridge between the engineers the product designers all that and the influencers I think today we just see I know a lot of influencers that are like oh the only person I know at XYZ is the marketing person and it’s like no you should know the engineers you should know all those people right

yeah there’s a company you know that I know pretty well and they hired a person to be the influencer liaison so I mean I don’t believe that that model is the best and I don’t know if that liaison is hired off the street capable but they don’t know the engineers they don’t know some of the supported racers they don’t know some of the down-the-trenches employees who are also involved in motorsports and have tremendous amount of knowledge and abilities and that you know things that they can add to add to the puzzle they don’t it’s just okay we’re gonna manage this person here’s what he’s gonna do he’s supposed to go out there you know we see how many you know hits or impressions or you know and they’ll target a product sometimes they’ll say we’re gonna push on this part number then we’ll follow that part number and see if we get a blip in sales things like that just to see if they get things like that actually work but it’s gotten really really I don’t want to say sterile I don’t know very and I think we did a much better job with that by trying to engage people and then having you know access to those people

just gonna plug forums once more we talk about forums all the time I love forums and I’m just I’m every time we talk about them so nostalgic one the world was just a slower pace back then right like someone would ask a question and they didn’t expect an answer point one seconds later it was like hey I’m working on an LSX block does anybody know XYZ you could say oh let me get with the engineers I’ll get back to you there would be a couple posts and then you

could search stuff too yeah you could look LSX block and get a hundred posts right yeah we all did were much much different and forums were some people would use forums as a weapon and so there were people on there that were not interested in one bit and give you an answer or help they were interested in in negativity and toxic and just trying to attack and so that was sport for me that was so much fun because you could turn a thread that started out a certain way and by the time you got done with it because you’re offering what can I do how can I help you I mean I really just want you to get your problems solved and that’s not what they wanted at all and so you know pretty you know you had the pitchforks and the torches initially and then you would like try and help them it’s the forums were it was really a sport and you know it we’ve lost a lot you know and a lot of the younger generation so to speak doesn’t they’ll never know well how forums were compared to social media instagram you know facebook what you know tiktok all this other stuff so it’s uh you know it was interesting

yeah bring them back I feel like the old man yelling at clouds but I want I want the forums back and I want an automotive advantage listener to be the one that maybe makes the next billion on the forum resurgence you know one of the core questions for us is what does it take to drive sales and you you’ve sold or influenced the sale of billions of dollars of performance parts and high performance cars and race parts through the years you know I’m always fascinated with how well you can read the room read people how you can think several steps down the road and how that leads to a relationship and ultimately your sales success you know what kind of advice do you give people these days on being what does it take to drive those sales how did you get that skill set you know what can people do to to get to your level of moving big numbers

in my previous job career dealt with contractors they were the ultimate buyer of that product that we sold we had the architecture engineers that had to specify the product amongst other competitors so now it was like okay we got to get to the contractor and get him to want to buy our product and the one thing I learned early is relationships slow and easy you know you don’t expect the first sale the first time 20 times you meet him um plant seeds it’s all about planting seeds and letting people get to know you and be comfortable with you before you start expecting or hoping to to have a business relationship or sales with them that’s on the bigger picture let’s say with different organizations or things like that the other thing is is I learned how in this in this world their needs you have to know their needs what they expect what’s going to warm their heart what they want in the end of the day the contractors it was we want to make more money we want our job to be easier to do we want less hassle so I refer to a term sometimes where companies are inwardly focused and they’re not necessarily concerned about the process of how to purchase or buy from that company or that or that shop and so if you make it difficult to deal with then people will go somewhere else so if the easier you can make it for them to buy your product the easier you could make them to make money show them how to make money then they will gravitate to your product and so one of the things you know in my construction background we we found ways our product was higher priced than our competitors so but we knew ways that we could make that contractor more competitive and his profits were better for our product even though we thought we were higher so you know things like that so and the same thing applied when I went to work at Holley now Holley is a I should say the performance aftermarket list if you want to if you don’t want me to mention Holley it’s up to you don’t matter to you yeah it doesn’t matter I’m very good very good very good with those guys still so but

the automotive aftermarket is a want not a need at all so you have to realize that this is something that is enjoyable for people people want to have fun and that’s how I met some of the people who got you introduced to GM performance parts and myself introduced to GM performance parts you know I’m in a racetrack and and I’m a racer and I’m sponsored pretty well and I see these people that are not having fun and you know we’re not professionals this our bread and butter isn’t made on winning races or the purse the purse is too small whatever we’re here to have fun now if somebody’s not having fun they’re not going to be buying product so so if you can figure out how to help them achieve their goals and have fun even though anybody had gone out first round but guess what you know they were having fun and the same with car shows or or or drag and drives or whatever you’ve got to figure out a way to make them you know their disposable income it’s their you know they don’t have a fishing boat they don’t have a have a motorcycle they might you know but seriously a lot of them that’s their main fun so if you can make it easy to deal with you know easy to place orders receive orders technical advice I mean we can go into a whole segment on on technical support being part of making it easier for people to use your product so that’s kind of where a lot of my focus was when I joined Holly.

I love it um I have a bunch of questions here so for the time to sail right it’s a long it’s a much longer time period than many people may suspect I know some people in my personal life that expect to meet someone and do a deal with them at the dinner they’re at and it it is going to happen 10 years later at that dinner right but there’s big things and there’s shops and there’s one-to-one sales so maybe let’s start it with big things because I know at Holly or even the LSX block um but let’s take Holly for an example when you have a new product and you want to go after a series say and you want your product to be part of that series give me that timeline for someone who’s sitting at home right now with a product like man if I could only get this into NHRA or if I could only get this into how much time should they be anticipating this should take and kind of what how would you approach this from zero to getting in?

I have I have experience in this and so when I joined Holly again I talked earlier about planting seeds and building relationships so I had come off some of my sponsorship program my PSA with GM had met some very you know talented people I had made some very long lasting relationships that still have them and so what I did let’s say uh NHRA I I paid a visit to NHRA and said you know hey um I asked Holly who’s handling NHRA oh well so and so he’ll answer the questions or he’ll take care of them but I’m like well the last time you talked to him oh a couple years ago so I made a point to uh visit NHRA and so I talked to the technical staff I said hey I want to come up and see you what for okay like I just want to introduce myself they’re like what for you know and so when up there I think we I don’t think we did lunch on that that meeting but basically sat down in the conference room here’s my card I race over here here’s what I’ve done here’s some of my experiences I’m not here to ask you for anything I’m here to let you know that as Holly as a large performance company that if you need any questions answered or if you need any assistance then here’s my card you know I am available to you that I did that for probably three or four years at one point in time I had a um everybody had talked about pro stock EFI and pro stock for years Warren talked about it um and and for the younger crowd Warren Johnson so uh so Warren had talked about it other people have talked about it some people had been you know shooting it down but but and of course my big job was pushing Holly EFI that’s what my focus was and so I just I didn’t tell them you know hey you know I wanted to do this I didn’t say that I said here I am um several years a couple years later I had a couple pro stock motorcycle teams that were um wanting to test Holly so I was working with them and I had approached an HRA and said hey you know I got they already had EFI and pro pro stock motorcycle so all I need to do is get my system approved and added to the list and so I’d say hey I like to talk to you about pro stock motorcycle like okay well you give us a moment we’re kind of busy but every year at Bristol I went to Bristol race for an HRA and and that’s when I sat down with the tech guys because I knew that uh Tim White and Glenn Gray were going to be at that event so I would sit down in the tech trailer hey how’s it going blah blah we’re not doing EFI that’s the first thing we’re not doing EFI like okay cool you know so when when they decided that they were going to do EFI I was in a very very good position at that time and so um you know the COPO program came about you know I had uh Dr. Meyer had contacted me about an upcoming COPO program that was going to happen and he was looking for an intake manifold and I want to tell you what he said to me but you know needless to say it was very urgent that I supply an intake manifold that we had not developed yet for the COPO program but we had iteration of it that could be modified and so I had one of those modified to test and so that was a success and then we ended up we already had the tooling done we just accelerated the the you know getting the tooling cast and we we made the program and at that time we were I also talked to them about some EFI stuff well the COPO program and I was able to you know build on relationships with people in the COPO program because of the intake manifold and then after they had they considered EFI, Holley EFI for the 12 but the engineering staff pushed the Mephi system and won by the time they delivered five cars they decided to do Holley EFI for 2013 so we supported very heavily the racers and GM performance GM racing with the COPO program that rolled into

ARCA series was looking for a a crate engine option so ARCA approached Ilmore ARCA also approached GM racing and GM racing because of of their um experience with the COPO recommended us call me of Robin Lawrence and Holley so did the ARCA program ARCA program was successful and we supported them pushed it very halo projects but still it again we’re talking about that validation of a product in the industry and you have a car you’re running wide open it at Talladega or Daytona you know 7,000 RPM or 7,200 RPM for you know 200 laps I mean it kind of you know okay this stuff works so back to the pro stock program literally you know they were like hey we want to talk to you about pro stock I thought pro stock motorcycle I bump into an English town and crossing you know talking about EFI okay I’ll call you Monday call them pro stock car not pro stock motorcycle so my point is is for three or four years I’ve gone to Bristol I just patiently hey here I am what do you need how could I help you meanwhile we had done the COPO program we did the ARCA program you know I had several meetings with them toward the end they said I said I have an ARCA team that has a shop in Brownsburg why don’t I take you over there and show you their ARCA car and those guys were were no I mean they had worked on IndyCar stuff you know before working with with NHRA so they were pretty savvy as far as some of that stuff you know I didn’t know what the crew chief would say and he he said I’ll warm the oil up we’ll get the oil we’ll fire the car up the guys asked him you know what do you think about Holley EFI he told him he told him was the best thing they ever did in ARCA so we got the deal you know we had I had other competitors that were barking at the door but again it had been in that relationship I didn’t expect anything I didn’t demand anything I didn’t have a management that was looking for instant gratification and that’s that’s the biggest thing a good sales guy has to deal with these days these guys are I mean it’s what is going on this quarter what have you sold what is your number this week so I was blessed because you know at the time the CEO Tom Talley said you know he let me go build that and I also had tremendous amount of support with the engineering side those guys they hated me I mean and you know we had Doug Flynn who was the practical engineer he kept the sales guy you know from getting out of hand and I kept the engineers from getting out of hand so it was a very good relationship but the first few times they would you know I had expectations and they said no we can’t do that or or that we’re going to have trouble with that and three days later they they do it and you know after several successes they were they were how do we say very on board with whatever we were doing so it was very very good but the point on that was the nhra deal exactly kind of a scenario that you brought up a big picture thing was didn’t happen overnight it wasn’t like they called somebody up and we ran up there they had sat down with me they had met with me we had talked about things I presented EFI to them and said I know you’re not doing it I’m you know so anyway I don’t want to dwell on that but the instant gratification thing you know is not going to happen on a big ticket deal like that they got to feel very comfortable with you so and that was that worked out very well

love it that’s perfect because I think a lot of people think oh Holly just shows up and writes a check to sponsor something and then they’re in our xyz company does that it’s not that case at all right no there’s and there’s people out there that are like they’re like oh this is what holly did to do this and this is what happened and I’m like you know uh but no I was there yeah they’re like well no my bunny said I read this I’m like I was there and so no you’re right and there was a lot of that that went around holly wrote a paycheck and they did this and they gave all this away and that’s not what happened it was it was a very collaborative deal with NHRA and yeah it was it was not a big check at all

but years in the making and I like that point about like if you’re going to have a sales team you should have some percent of that sales team working on very long range goals because you’re not going to get there without that and then you should have people that are selling day to day and doing that kind of because you got to keep the lights on right yes I was blessed later on I was leading a team of of very highly experienced highly technical sales people as holly was acquiring companies as you know they acquired a lot of companies there they were you know streamlining the operations for the overlap and so if if they went individually looked at the people that were coming with the other company and so I was blessed because I got the pick of the litter I got some of the guys that were legends in the industry and so these guys have been involved in sales and support you know for companies such as MSD, Race Pack, Mallory, Accel, Hillborn, various companies like that you know Rick Anderson from Anderson for Motorsports so you know I was blessed to be able to have those guys on that team so while I was out doing some of the face stuff and they were in the background and like supporting the whole deal so but no that’s very important.

took a couple notes like the paraphrase of this you know Rotten Sales Tech’s network there’s a few things that stand out the network the networking the fact that you did all of this or most of it in person right common maybe 10 years ago almost impossible now people just don’t do in-person sales calls right your technical expertise shines through you know your immediate connection to your engineering team and then your own personal technical expert you you definitely made your own luck right you didn’t get lucky you you you planted seed you were mining the three years you delivered on the results and then I like the comment about managing up and setting expectations with with a CFO or whoever’s in charge of sales and saying this is what I’m looking at for a long-term plan yes I’m grinding away and I got guys making the number this month but here’s what’s on the horizon here’s what could be happening.

know when it came to the Holley EFI what was interesting is I believe that in life everybody gets thrown a crumb or a or a win at some point in time and the thing with that is is you know I’ve been working 19 years in the previous job and while I mean I I was in cruise control and so I lacked I’m a competitive person I like to win and so I lacked the uh you know there was no objective room it was like you’re selling you know drums and material to concrete contractors I mean it was like that not very exciting or romantic at all so you know I had been a beta tester with the Holley EFI so it was one of those things that you’re sitting there and you look at a product and you’re going oh my god this is going to go somewhere I mean and if this had the right promotion and the right people and the right support so those guys had a wonderful product so I want to say that I’m a lucky guy because I was in the right place at the right time and had some of the expertise and and sales ability to help them take that to what it’s fully capable of

when when you launched Holley EFI was was at zero sales or did you come into something that was on the upswing I joined I joined them when it was about 35 3.5 million and so it had been launched the year prior but the 3.5 million was not all just Holley EFI it was some of the old commander 950 it was intake manifold combinations so of that Holley EFI I it was a very very small amount it really had not taken hold or started to get legs in the industry so so I think they released it somewhere around 2009 I joined them at the end of 2010 so it was about three and a half million when I joined and so uh yeah it

was it a hundred acts when you walked away yes I’m going to wade into some murky waters here awesome there’s a lot of time that a sales team and an engineering team are very divided from the marketing team sometimes they work together a lot of times they feel like each one is the only one rowing the boat and they’re the only ones making it successful so we’ve talked about the engineering side and the sales side of Holley EFI success

many people may not know especially if they’re newer to the scene that Holley was basically a dead brand pre-shift to LS I mean it was a carburetor brand it was not yeah it was it was okay it was it was not hey I said we’re going into murky waters here okay all right I would say that Holley did one of the best turnarounds of any company in the last 20 years taking what was a known old school carburetor brand and making it you talked about this a fun cool hip brand with LS Fest and with all the stuff they were doing so maybe talk to us a little bit about how the sales team and engineering team interacted with the marketing team were you guys close there was marketing kind of doing their own thing and then I want to talk about how they worked together to grow this mega mega brand

okay I can’t okay LS Fest I was um I was Holley was one of my sponsors or supporters when I was doing the LFX program there’s a lot of people that came along for the ride with the LSX deals and Nova the car Holley was one of those so I had that’s how I developed some of a relationship with some of the marketing guys some engineering guys at Holley LS Fest the first one I was not I didn’t work there I was a participant and what was that goofy race you remember the name that race

shut your face race exactly right so so it was based on some smack talk and some stuff from forums and so anyway I was at the first event and they I think that they were this is uh they were seeing their message being watered down by the current editorial the mechanism to get your information out to the public was being watered down or wasn’t getting through so they they were brilliant they dreamed up LS Fest and so it was I mean I was the first year it was fun and they were like they we want people to have fun so um I think that uh and Holley was even though it was one of the larger companies I think that there was a very intimate relationship between marketing sales when I when I got there I definitely realized their value and their need for me to be successful and engineering so um

we one of the problems is that some companies think engineering has to determine what the good new products are no um some people think marketing should do that no I mean while they should be part of the process with marketing with data with GM with I mean I would say engineering with a case on is it going to be profitable you know and marketing are we selling up but sales ultimately has to be out in the industry out with feet on the ground not reading you know internet posts and to determine what is going to be the best product to develop and bring to the public I mean so but they they the business is flat the performance industry is not a real big growing industry it’s pretty flat and Holley was I think that some people were in panic mode because they thought harvators were a dying you know of a line and so it was funny because you know in the first 10 years I was there they probably dropped 20 percent so it wasn’t dying near as fast as people were trying to stab a lot of people were still buying a lot of carburetors but the whole LS movement I mean they took it to a whole different level and so um and marketing you know was you know they were the key and then marketing was the guys that made that happen so uh was that kind of get to how the murky water there

yeah I just want a sales guy to admit that marketing was the key there so I got what I needed out of a lot of my success was because I had somebody you know like Bill Tishner in marketing that we would work together hey and he would he would put the money where my mouth was and he would he would you know he would help with because he had the budget for marketing I didn’t have a budget for marketing so he would we would talk and he was like I like that let’s do this let’s do this so yeah it was a team thing

how about time to sell for shops and little things so you’re doing these big projects but you’re also like hey local speed shop I need you to buy two EFI systems and I want to just get you on board and give me your approach to that and maybe if you can try to flip it and tell a shop owner what they could be doing better when they’re engaging with a company like Holly and you know when I started I approached a lot of friends and in the industry who were heavy into EFI I thought that would be my first you know point to touch base and push the Holly find that backfired that did not work so I uh touched some of the guys and I said okay you know we need to make these guys an islander and because there’s a lot of guys that had a lot of experience and they were very comfortable with their relationships and with the product they were currently selling so they weren’t going to just drop because you know Robin asked them to as it wasn’t going to happen so what we did is we tried to focus on again making the little guy profitable and so we knew from past experience that the industry was very uh it had a lot of situations where people would go into shops and try and demonstrate Holly EFI about Holly five demonstrate EFI and they would spend two or three days and the engine would be backfiring and won’t run and they’re up and saying some you know young kid out of college would be calling back to the engineers and ask no questions and doing things and finally the shop owners would throw them out so what we did and we said we have to make these these guys are very busy these engine builders these shops we have to make this like uncomplicated and very easy for them let’s show them how easy that is and again back to that they’re going to make more money so what we did is my guys had um harnesses and ECUs in a trunk full of all kinds of components and so what we offered is it told us guys hey we’ve got the CFI we know you might be doing this system now or this system over here but what will you offer we say hey what we’ll do is we’ll come in if you’re going to do a dyno session we’ll come in we’ll throw our stuff on that on whatever customer engine or your engine you want and we’ll do a demonstration we’ll fire it up we’ll do some dyno pulls you can look at it yourself and if you want to buy that system because it’s already here and you want to keep it for your dyno we’ll give you a discounted deep discounted rate sometimes I received product from returns that we can’t resell but I know it works if we ran out of dyno I leave it with them hey keep it for future dyno work on your on your so what happened there is and I and I told my guys that we all became very very proficient at making sure that as soon as you push that ignition button that baby fired off no popping no banging no flames no calling engineers you know that sort of thing so we were we got we we became very good at that because we knew that was a weak point and a stress point with many of those customers so so again we tried to make it easy the strategy in the holly at the time and still is but the closed loop operation was phenomenal it was something the industry had not seen that type of speed in previous ecus and it was latest and greatest so so what happened is is we had literally engine builders that were would tell us that oh you know it took me two days to put the engine on the dyno develop a tune make the poles get everything sorted out and so literally we would we would go in and have it done before lunch on the first day and they said oh I can do two more engines in the time that I did the other system this is awesome so that’s really what helped a lot is we went to these engine builders some racers I mean we sprinkled some parts around out there to you know get some of our friends in the industry to use our product supported the heck out of them until they were seriously competitive and so you know it was you really had to like you know show them how to make more money and how you know working with us with beneficial you know later on you know holly said listen you know these guys here’s our price schedule over here there’s a price schedule over here if they’re doing this we’ll get them on the deeper deal so now they had access to not only the efi brand that all of other holly’s other brands so now instead of like oh oh holly if i oh while i’m placing that order maybe i need an intake manifold or distributor or a carburetor some coils and so they would and and they oh actually make a decent margin on this stuff so that’s helping them make more money

i think a lot of people just assume that you make a good product you post about it a couple times and then people start buying it but it’s very much i’m driving to your shop with the harness in the back of my trunk we are going to show you how this works you know it’s much more face to face than a lot of people think i think that current possibly private equity and a lot of the people that are have been involved in the industry of late have that mentality i’ve seen that in many companies and it’s like how do we cut costs how do we slim down the company and so a lot of the people that have all the technical expertise and the support level are gone and so the engine shops you know they like even the speed shops like to have a guy everybody wants a guy that you call them up hey you know this part number’s hung up in the system what’s going on blah blah boom took care of it done and because everybody’s so lean and mean with with help it’s it’s almost impossible now to get somebody to do that type of support

i think a lot of the pe people or people coming from other industries into this industry think oh it’s just direct to consumer man you make a thing you sell it to consumer everyone forgets there is a middleman it’s your local speed shop or your engine builder or your tuner and if they if they hate this thing that’s it no one in the town is running it because you got to go to them for help and you’ve trusted them forever so yeah building that node is so important right

well and you made a you made a point on one of your earlier protests about metrics and it’s and that’s what happens is they come in and they don’t like they don’t look at the long term and they say oh our marketing will only be driven by metrics we’re only going to spend money where we can see metrics well those metrics don’t necessarily reflect what’s best for certain products i mean i as you know i have a dino business and so i get a tremendous amount of people that are older than i am that are retired and they’ve got stupid disposable income and at this point in time in life they want to have fun they want to drive their car to a car show they want to run nice they and and so that metric those people can’t be counted in those metrics because they’re not involved in in the areas in the social media where the metrics are being counted so you know i tell somebody look at them

the website. No. You know, they’re going to go on look at their subject catalog. And so some people still want to look at those catalogs. And so anyway, you know, I think that you made a really good point about people can make metrics say anything they want. And I think that that that happens a lot. I’m smiling because each Robin just knows his customer so well. And he’s telling these stories, but it’s something that we coach people on or we bring to the table. You’ve got to know your customer so well. And here you are, you’re identifying some weaknesses, you know, how do you help a shop make more money and end your job, make more money. It’s a brilliant example of how to know your customer and how to take care of them. And that’s what’s always made you a great salesperson, right?

Hopefully. Well, and I had one of our mutual friends we saw over the weekend, and he was buying, you know, an excess of $70,000 worth of product. And they decided to redesign the product. And so he told me, and then they changed his pricing schedule, because he was not he was less than $1,000 away from the tier that he needed to have the pricing level. And he said, So I just started buying things from everybody else. So I mean, I mean, somebody didn’t know that customer, somebody didn’t, like, say, Listen, this is the trickle down effect that’s going to happen if you this one part number, you make a man over here. And it’s not just to be that one part number. You’re not just killing Oh, oh, we only sold 20 those last year. But now he’s so mad that all these other products are gone. I mean, he’s not he’s even motivated to Yeah, so it’s it’s it’s a touchy thing. And again, knowing what their needs are and what’s warm and fuzzy with them, and being able to get a response from upper management, you know, in that, hey, you know, Joey brings the good information, we don’t want to cut that product, or we’re not selling enough to, you know, really justify it. But in the whole in the long term, we have all these other, you know, products that he does buy.

Robin, you, you’re a tuner, you’ve always been a tuner, I want to explore that side hustle, but now call it semi retired job, or you know, whatever, whatever, but you are, you are called in to tune a lot of very expensive engines and a lot of very expensive cars. Can you explore that a little bit for us kind of share what that means? And also think about the you know, the folks that are listening to this that would love to just be a tuner when they grow up? Is that a viable income? How much money can I make as a as an engine tuner, a motorsport tuner? Talk to me about this a little bit.

I don’t know. I’m really not ashamed. T. I mean, or there’s a lot of guys out there that are doing very, very well at it. I’m not, I don’t tune the cars at that level. And so, you know, it started as just a hobby, you know, 88 Fox body, you know, how do we how do we screw this thing that changed the fuel curve. And I was always into computers early in life, you know, the old Radio Shack, you know, TRS, you know, just old, Jamie’s like shaking his head. So between that and some of the cars came out with the EFI, I gravitated that. Again, I’m competitive. And I like to see change. I like to see improvement. So as far as mine, you know, it came about a lot of self taught. And then being associated with different like racing and having people that let me use their dino for free. And because I was helping them learn things also, and just figuring out what doesn’t work and what works. And I don’t I think somebody can make a decent living at it. There’s a lot of guys that, you know, you know, fly all over the place. And there’s some guys that camp out on dual dinos in the same shop and somebody keeps rotating the car in and I they line up six cars to tune in one day. I’m not that guy. I mean, I like to take it a little easier now. So you know, usually I’m I’m home for lunch. And I’ve done for the day. So I’ll do one in the morning, you know, done. Now, that’s on it. That’s on the chassis. Engine dino is a lot it’s a long hard day. Usually if you do get it on and off the same day. I’ve always been fascinated with EFI. So that’s why, you know, gravitated EFI and computers, that’s kind of what that is. Now, if somebody wants to do this, there’s some very, very good places to learn that. I mean, even people like, you know, the school of machine is more focused on building engines and machine work. Ohio, the Northern Ohio, a very good program, you know, Ben Strader has tuning class. And whereas, you know, you go to a Holly class, they teach you how to use the software. Okay, this button will do this, this button will do this. They don’t tell you the concept of air fuel and stoichiometric and, and, you know, they don’t teach you that. Whereas like Ben Strader’s EFI university, he has a specific class that tells you the concept and the engineering behind, so, you know, and most of the time, you know, there’s a lot of people out there that just basically, you know, go buy HP tuners or put how EFI on your, on your last body or your, your five three turbo and, and start playing and start listening to some of your friends. And you’re gonna break a few things here and there. That’s why you want inexpensive, you know, junkyard engines. But, but there’s a lot of guys that have done that. But, you know, you know, my deal, I used to do tuning for people and people stopped didn’t want me using their dinos. And they’re like, Oh, it’s on this composition. So that’s when I moved back to Illinois, I put my own chassis dino in. And I’ve always had a love for the engine dino and the development side, development pieces of hearts and testing, testing, testing. So the race car is an extension of that, but the dino is kind of gets you there. So that answer that quick. I mean, I mean, you know, it’s, you know, for me, I’m not, I’m not out there chasing looking, you know, to add or be very, very busy with it. I’d rather have good, good equipment and get good data and learn.

Use add timing until it breaks and then go one down, I think pretty simple. What I’ve experienced out there in the market. What happened to that car? I mean, we talked about that 10 years ago. Have you ever seen the light of day? I have a Transam W six single turbo vengeance racing built made 1260 on the engine dino made 1130 to the tire with a Holley EFI on it. And we just took it to the half mile this year for the first time ever.

Oh, wow. It’s a runs and drives. It was terrifying. You know, it’s been a 15 year project. So Ron, I was gonna ask you who drove it. So Ron drove it first. So I couldn’t get there. So Friday, the vengeance crew went up, got everyone else’s cars prepped. Saturday, Ron took the first hit in the car. Now you got to imagine Ron state of mind this thing’s been 15 years. It’s vengeance. They know how to build cars. But did we forget to put fluid in the rear end? Like there’s so many things on a 15 year old car, right?

Yeah. So because Ron’s a driver, and he’s a badass, he goes 185 on the first hit. Yeah, well, he did it. And then he’s like, All right, cool. Yeah, it drives you get in it now. So I show up. I’m like, Ron, how? What do I need? No, he’s like, All right. Well, pretty simple. It’s a fourth gen F body with 1200 horsepower. So it’s gonna feel like you’re gonna die the whole time. He’s like, first gear just launch as hard as you can. It’s gonna bog because it’s got like a 280 rear gear. He’s like, it’s gonna bog as soon as you hear it make any type of turbo noise, just get ready to shift because going straight to the limiter, get it in a second, it’s gonna bog again. Kind of good good good. Third, now it’s going to start accelerating, but it’s also spinning the tires the entire time. Fourth, he’s like fourth is truly terrifying, because you’re going to put it in fourth, you’re finally going to look up and realize how far away a half mile is from where you are right now. He’s like, I won’t make fun of you. You don’t have to stay in it. It’s like, scary. So it’s not sorted. We don’t have the suspension set up like we just straight off the trailer. He’s like, I won’t make fun of you, which we all know he would in fact make fun of. Yes. So I’m, I’m staying in it. I’m not getting out of this thing. It was exactly how he said first bog, second bog, third spin, fourth. Oh, man, that’s far from here. And now it is like really accelerating. So I come back. I’m like, how, how’d it go? And Ron’s like, well, how did how do you think it went? Well, you know, did what you said. And I don’t know, it’s kind of terrifying. But I think I stayed in it. And it couldn’t have been that fast, though, because it was like, terrible. I was just sorting out a bunch of driving errors and stuff. And he’s like, Yeah, you went 145. And I’m like, Oh, sick, like 145. That’s like a respectable.

We mad at you for creeping up on it. Yeah, I’m like, that’s a respectable first pass. He’s like, No, just kidding. You went 181. I never knew you had the car out. I’m really, I was one of my things that I always love to harass you about is where is the car. So I’m really happy that you ran one of the ones because you you actually went a mile for all the faster than I ever went in the middle. That’s awesome.

That is awesome. I ended up going 185. I was like a 10th slower than Ron. So he’s still the faster of the two of us in the car. We were having we started to have some issues. We were actually like pulling the throttle cable bracket forward under boost. I guess it was one of those things that you find out once you charge run the car. Yeah. Yeah. And we had no two step no traction. Like, you know, we were just going out there. So we’re gonna run we’re gonna try to run a full season in 26. So that’d be four events with shift sector. You know, the goals go 200. So if we can do 200. Oh, oh, oh, oh, one in the half. We did what we set out to do. And yeah, so the other cars around been great. It’s funny. Every time I sit in it, you know, Ricky best got me the Holley system for it. And we were talking the first time out like, we’re gonna keep the Holly in here. Like, are we gonna modern like, what are we gonna do? This has been in here forever. Like, that’s never coming out. So we’re going 200 with this in it. And then you know, we can

figure out something else. But there, you know, just having a Holly car. There’s a lot more to that. So and, and that was what was interesting is, is I literally when I was at Holly, a lot of racers that I knew would call me up or race that I met because I was going to a lot of events, I was trying to be out there in front of people. And that’s where all my opportunities hit is meeting people at events, some of the big wings of different you know, companies and things like that. But, you know, I literally have people call me and say, hey, you know, I’m thinking about the Holly and like, what kind of car? What’s this? I said, how do you make it out? Well, I’m number two in the point. And like, why in the heck would you want to change your system? Why are you two in the points? And they’re like, they could understand that. But, you know, it but I’m was I was being honest. I mean, don’t screw with the car. I mean, I mean, maybe in the offseason and then start getting up on it. But why would you do that? And again, credibility, you know, honesty, and yeah, I’d like to sell them something. But jeez, I mean, you know, I’ve seen so many guys change cars, not necessarily, you know, the advices, but change something on the car and completely torpedo the program.

Yeah, never change major things mid season if you’re doing successfully. That’s a terrible idea. Robin, you’ve been one of those guys that called when I need to know what’s going on in the industry. You know, hey, how’s it feel out there for you guys? What are you seeing? What do you see on the streets? You mentioned it earlier, you know, 24 and 25 have been also really rough years we have automotive aftermarket for racing, you and I have seen pockets of success. We also see companies go out of business in the last two years.

And what do you what do you think 25 or we close the books at on 25 and then give me an idea of what 26 looks for? What are you looking for 26? And then if you’re running one of these companies in 26, what do you do to get after early? So 2526 and then give me a plan on how to make it a good It Yeah, it’s been very interesting 2425. I mean, the tariffs, I’ve heard more crying from people that you find out who’s actually been bringing stuff in from somewhere else. Because they’re the guys that are complaining the most about the tariffs. And you’ve got the other guys, the hardcore guys like, you know, screw China, blah, blah, blah, let’s do this. I get it. I mean, there’s a gotta be a balance. There’s got to be, it’s gonna happen somehow. But

the industry is really, you know, the PE guys really got excited about this sector. And a lot of them chased a lot of these companies. And I don’t I know there’s some of these companies aren’t able to do, there’s some bankruptcy going on and some of the vendors or suppliers to these companies. There’s, you know, if we thought we had trouble getting raw materials during COVID, you know, I think we’re seeing a little bit of that now. And we’ve seen some of the these companies with PE have stubbed their toes and made some mistakes. And again, I think, you know, I’m happy where I’m at, you know, as far as what I’ve seen, in the racing side, I mean, you see all this stuff is happening with NASCAR, with the lawsuits. And then you see, IHRA who Darrell is on a tear, and he’s buying up everything and he’s, and NHRA is kind of, kind of, I don’t know, they’re kind of like just, you know, stale, you know, in my opinion, it’s, it’s, I didn’t race any NHRA races last year, this year, 2024. I was really devastated by an MRI and CA going away, you really don’t know what you have until it’s gone. And I don’t, you know, Steve pulling out and closing was a business decision. And it was smart for him for the safety and security of his family and his livelihood. So I don’t hold any against Steve, I appreciate the years that he was dedicated to what he gave us. But there’s so much change in the industry. You know, IHRA is going to be eighth mile at their events. I’ve been talking to a lot of different racers. They’re not interested in eighth mile. I understand from a promoter or an event guy, you know, four wide, I hate four wide, I can barely take, you know, watch two cars versus four cars. You know, I can’t pay attention. So, so, so the eighth mile stuff is better for a track so you get cars off and on quicker, they can run the program faster, if I run more cars, because the time on track is it drops significantly. So, so it’s, it’s really interesting to see how all this is going to roll out. We have, you know, Dart has issues with their casting foundry. Brian Tooley just sold to private equity. You know, so, you know, Holly, I think is making some steps in the right direction from what I can see. Ed Obrock, who several years ago was making some wrong moves. I think Ed Obrock has really made some right moves in the last couple years. So I think that people don’t want to enjoy their cars. If they can’t find that part, or if they think it’s out of their reach, they’re still gonna enjoy their cars. They’re gonna do something to work on stuff. So I think the cost of the wrong of the cars themselves, the projects have gone through the roof. I think that they’ve crossed that line where if you buy a shell or a car that needs to be gone through, I think that now most all of them will cost you more to make them nice than is they’ll ever be worth. You know, so that’s kind of, so that’s gonna be interesting. And I think that’s gonna slow down some of the sales in the industry, because people always want to believe if they’re gonna tell themselves, okay, if I fix this car up, I might lose $10,000 if I have to have to sell it or when it might be worth less. And now it’s like, oh, I got to put 120,000 through a car that will be worth 60 when I’m done. So I think that’s going to, in a way affect our our the way people think about spending money on their projects, paint jobs, paints through the roof. I mean, so paint is, you know, a decent paint job now is $20,000. Just just normal paint job. If you want a real paint job, you’re talking an excess of $67,000. So that’s crazy. I mean, you know, I can see why patina cars and wrapped cars, and I’m not into those. That’s not my thing at all. But hey, it’s people love it. That’s part of the deal. So I think 26. I think like in the NHA side, the stuff that I watch, they’ve done some division level, they’ve done some smart things, they’ve got a lot of double races. So now, you know, you have a division double, so if you go to a race they have a race on on Thursday, Friday, then race on Saturday, Sunday. And that really helps, as you know, because when things get rough, people don’t want to spend money on on travel on on fuel. And so those are going to be more efficient for a lot of people that have two races in one. I think that’s a great idea. I really think this this IHRA is, I mean, they bought Memphis. I mean, I mean, they bought a premier track like, like Maple Grove, and what doesn’t need any TLC. And the Kresge did a great job of running that track and, and, and keeping that track where it is. And in Memphis, I mean, you look at that’s like, you know, there’s a lot of money in the Memphis to get it back. But still, I mean, there, it’s gonna be a lot of places to race. And it’ll be interesting to see how all that goes. I think, you know, as far as politics and the terrorists and things like that, I mean, you can’t bet on what’s gonna happen. I mean, you got to wait. I mean, it’s just not going to, you know, one thing comes out of politicians mouth, and then he takes makes this change. And these guys, if they’re trying to follow that, they’re very angry people. You see that all the time. So, you know, I think that it’ll all settle out. You know, if it was gonna have a big tax return, then we’ll see some, it’s a really nice spending in the industry. But I mean, I’m not doom and gloom, you know, the some of the events like nha. are being sold out. And so it’s not like, you know, but you got to remember there’s an enthusiast side and then there’s a entertainment side. And then a lot of the NASCAR has always been about entertainment. It’s an entertainment. Well, nha. On the pro side, that’s where their entertainment is. On the sports inside, you don’t see any of the stands. They’re not there. This all this stuff with with no prep Kings, motor trend,

that whole thing going away. A lot of people are bummed about that. And I don’t know what type of, you know, business model that was a revenue that was generating. I know I talked to some of the people I know, Mike, and again, and people like that. And, you know, about their ratings and how they were doing. So, you know, I mean, I don’t know if it was if those things went away because they couldn’t support themselves. You know, why couldn’t somebody else take them over? Or, or if it was just malfeasance by a major media company? I don’t know. So, but there’s a lot of interesting things is coming up.

Put a number in 26. We’re going to be up 5% or 15%? I think I would I would tend to think we’re going to be up 5%. Flat to five is what my opinion would be. Robin, are you seeing anything? We’ll we’ll end here maybe. That’s new and exciting to you in the car space. Are you like, Oh, I’m really interested in this little niche here. I’m seeing some cool stuff coming out of this. I think super chargers are coming back or like, do you have any kind of little interest where you’re like, Oh, I see a little bit of something that I think is going to be a big something in 510 years.

No, I don’t. All right, that’s the pod. Good. See ya.

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